Howdy
I'm heading to Cairo in a few weeks and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience getting some field recordings to add to their collections of samples.
Right now I'm debating on a digital recorder and think I'm seriously considering the Samson Zoom H2 and a boatload of SD Cards.
Anyone have realtime experience with this or similar products, and/or discussing the options with the locals in Cairo? Might street musicians be amenable to a little sampling?
Heck, I'll be happy to get city street noise, but that's my experimental roots coming out.
I'm heading to Cairo in a few weeks and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience getting some field recordings to add to their collections of samples.
Right now I'm debating on a digital recorder and think I'm seriously considering the Samson Zoom H2 and a boatload of SD Cards.
Anyone have realtime experience with this or similar products, and/or discussing the options with the locals in Cairo? Might street musicians be amenable to a little sampling?
Heck, I'll be happy to get city street noise, but that's my experimental roots coming out.
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:08 PMjim, I enjoy beefing up the sample libraries this way - I use a low-end mp3 recorder that has a decent mic for this - usually cut up the sounds in an editing program to capture the indivdual hits (like hitting metal or capturing reverberation from a cymbal, bird chrips, etc), then I load them into software and manipulate/warp/modulate the sounds. I did some of this on my recent release. I've heard good things about the Zoom H2 - a very cool piece of hardware.
Sampling street musicians has been an ocassional trend in some circles, but I haven't met many that do it often. I know that Maga Bo and Filastine on Soot Records do a lot of this. I honestly haven't tried this myself but I would consider it as I'm always looking for new sounds. If I was in your position (just my 2.5 cents) I would totally explore the notion with a sales pitch in mind of course - a minor payment, prospect of being on a song or release, and their name on your release or liner notes as a contribution. Something comparable to that could satisfy most - realizing they probably put food on their plate this way. Obtaining non-copyrighted sound sources from true musicians in another country is definately worth some coinage and time. Good luck with this endeavor - sounds cool! Let me know how it goes. -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 4:14 AMPersonally, I think samplists should adopt this ethic
(and this one won't make me popular):
I think if you sample someone playing and use their sample to make a piece of music,
you should be every bit as good a musician as they are.
Otherwise, I think it is ripping people off and intrinsically disrespectful to the
culture that you are appropriating.
Okay, you can flame the hell out of me now..................I'm prepared.........................lol -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 10:08 PM> I think if you sample someone playing and use their sample to make a piece of music,
you should be every bit as good a musician as they are.
according to who?
> Okay, you can flame the hell out of me now
who would bother, sampling has been debated ad nauseum for decades.. and the winner is.... the lawyers!
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 9:07 AMThanks for the feedback Maduro.
I figure this would be a good time to test my ear on Maqamat!
Now, how much does a rebab stay in tune, or am I going to have nightmares of the old analog synth days? LOL
I love the raw sounds of acoustic instruments from the Middle East and I look forward to testing my knowledge of the theory and application, both on the street and in the clubs. Hopefully I'll be able to gain that realtime 'ear' that Western musicians seem to miss when emulating Eastern music. It's tough enough since I'm also a trained vocalist to sing in some of the maqamat. I'm not used to singing in quarter tones, let alone slightly sharping or flatting 'to Arabic taste'.
It will be lovely to take the recordings and clean them up to see what I can get from them. It'll hopefully help my mizmar skills, much to my dogs' dismay! LOL
So let's see - Things to spend money on in Cairo:
- Private Dance lessons
- Costumes
- Photo Tours
- Musicians
I should be using some of this info on some upcoming recordings. I've been working on learning to sing a few Farid al Atrache pieces, a few electronic explorations of classic Arab songs, and trying to compose my first piece for Raks Sharki. Oh, and a few remixes, just because I need to teach some American stuff when I'm in Europe. ;)
Fingers crossed! -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 9:48 PMYou know, JimBoz,
there's a wonderful book that I"ve been working through with both voice,
fretless bass and trumpet lately called
Arabic Musical Scales: Basic Maqam Teachings
by Cameron Powers.
It comes with a double CD set and one of the things is that you can really
hear (over and over) the difference between those quarter tones, half tones
and whole tones.
It's really concise and really chock full of stuff and it costs less than a single
darbukka lesson.
One of the hip things that I discovered since you mentioned 1/4 tones is that
on a fretless string instrument the quarter tone that is equidistant between the
major 2nd and minor 2nd (Western 12 tone tuning) is exactly
equidistant from the nut to the Minor Third in exactly the same way that the
2nd is a whole step above the open string and a whole step below the Major third.
It's so simple and visual..................playing those three notes minor 2nd, quarter tone up, major 2nd
over and over you can really hear the difference between the three.
a quarte -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 11:36 PMI am reading a great book right now that mentions about maqamat "GRANDMOTHER'S SECRETS" The Ancient Rituals and Healing Powers of belly dance. by Rosina-Fawzia A-Rawi. I also sing and play percussion(learning Doumbek) I would like to get this book. Is it on Amazon?
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 10:04 PMi use a sony dat recorder w/ a stereo mini mic. my brother used an mp3 recorder in guinea and got a good enough quality field recording that i used it on my album. he paid the griot to sing for him - simple as. -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 3:26 PMwell, it's refreshing to hear that you paid the person you sampled to perform.
I've just been around so many people who will sample people with talent and then
make really terrible garage band loop recordings and put them out, never really \
understanding the culture or the depth of aesthetics of the person they sampled.
and you are right, according to who is a pithy question, but I meant what I wrote in
a non-literal way...........I was talking more about the ethics and aesthetics involved
and not really lobbying that we should have sample police out there.
So, I'm probably not so far away from you, as it might appear, philosophically.
By the way, now a Zoom H2 (which you can buy for under $200) and a Sony ECM S907
stereo mic (that records flat and can, hence, use convolution impulse files representing
very expensive condernser mics that you'd never take into the field with you)
can yield recordings that could go on any album or soundtrack with impunity from
a purely technical standpoint. -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 11:24 PMi know, it's unbelievable, my sony dat recorder which i paid $700 for, while not a paperweight (yet) is inferior to a $140 device that is also a fraction of its size. i guess the dat is still nice if you want to record a multi day event or something, but it's only a short matter of time before you'll be able to pop micro drives in and out of your portable hd recorder.
i actually agree w/ your sentiments i think -- i was just giving someone a little crap yesterday on another site -- dude was asking for feedback from some very talented producers for some old unfinished tracks he threw up on the web and wanting them to tell him he was an innovator or something.. but soon as you start trying to set standards it becomes a joke very quickly. people will do what they will so i'm not going to stress over it. -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 3:38 PMOne of the interresting things about music - recordings, specifically - is that the effort used in creation is completely seperated from the actual result. You listen to a recording a fall in love with it, only to realize later that the artist was a wife beater, or a Nazi, or ate red meat. Or didn't give a damn about who they ripped off, or really tried hard to give credit, but only wound up exploiting the originator.
Music and aestehtics are subjective, not objective. If someone paid someone for a sample does that mean they had integrity, or money in their wallet and used it to buy "authenticity"? If someone studied doumbec from an "Egyptian drummer" does that make them more or less worthy of creating belly dance music? Do people with long hair and tattoos make better metal?
What you take from your experiences and use makes you an artist, not something bought. Everything comes from somewhere. It's how you internalize it and use it that makes the difference; whether it's a sample or a riff you learned. Culture is to be learned from and shared, not kept isolated and put in glass cases. Preservation is the other side of survival.
No offense, Rick, but since your interpretation of music is your own, your opinions about how artists create are also your own. -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 5:10 PMright on. not only is there nothing new under the sun, there has NEVER been anything new -- as hard as that is to wrap one's head around. every "idea" is an amalgamation of experience -- one's own and the observed experience of others.. another point: for some musicians music is all about craft, creativity does not even enter into the picture. then at the other end of the spectrum are so-called outsider musicians who have the crudest of craft and maybe "no idea what they're doing", but still sometimes create the most wonderful music. -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 5:42 PMNone taken, Falik,
and quite the contrary.
Why I love tribe.net is that it is actually possible to have a true dialectic here;
it is possible to learn and to expand one's horizons.
I found your thoughts really interesting and they made me look at the phenomenon
differently.
I learned from your thoughtfulness and your wisdom and I appreciate that and
thank you.
I also really appreciate that even if I hadn't changed some of my views because of your post
that you were very respectful about it.
Thanks, for disagreeing with me, Falik. I owe you one, my friend. -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 12:23 AMMy apologizes to JimBoz who had no idea his post was gonna get hijacked! -
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 8:24 PMBecause my reply was a bit tangential, Falik,
I'd be more than happy if you had my postings
deleted.
I think of this tribe as fairly light hearted and there are not tons of postings here,
so I thought I'd share my thoughts about sampling of musicians in the field.
I apologize if I bugged you.
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Re: Using Field Recordings from the Middle East
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 9:39 AMduh, memory cards, so there you go - the perfect portable recording solution. and of course the price will continue to drop.
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